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Hell hath no fury...
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Rach



Quit Date:
February 7, 2004

Posts: 270
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: June 13, 2004 1:20 PM    Post subject: Hell hath no fury... Reply with quote

Hell hath no fury like a mother whose kids are dissed!

I AM FURIOUS with my in-laws! My 4 year old son's vacation bible school program was this morning at church. I taught the class, so I informed all of our families WELL in advance. My in-laws said they would attend. After the service, there was a little party out on the church lawn for all of the members.

The entire family showed, and believe me, I'm grateful. (By entire family I mean that my two 80 plus year old grandmothers who live 40 miles away came as well as our parents) I know there are many kids who don't get that kind of support or even have relatives living near them. HOWEVER>>>>>>>>>>>

All I hear about from my mother-in-law is how we should bring the kids over more often, that they haven't seen them in soooooo long. Both my mother and father in law are healthy 63 year olds who travel regularly to visit my husband's sister and her children who live 5 hours away. My in laws live 8 miles from us...EIGHT MILES!! I do take the kids over when I can, but we also have a life and activities that we participate in. I have made it clear on numerous occasions that it is absolutely fine for them to drop in on us at any time, even if they only have a few minutes to visit. They are RETIRED and the only "extra-curricular" activity that I'm aware of that they are involved in is their church (which they drive 20 miles each Sunday to attend).

SOOO, I'm pissed because they showed up for the program, watched him sing, and left right after (the service was only 1/2 over). The reason they left is so that they could attend THEIR church. Now, there was no special service at their church or anything in particular they had to DO...it's just more important for them to be "seen" at their church then to stick around 20 more minutes to see their grandson and tell him that they enjoyed his program. Did I mention they did the exact same thing last year?

I know this may sound petty, but this is one in a LOOOOOOOOONG list of grievances that I have with them. It is absolutely their loss. My mother-in-law can't figure out why my kids aren't attached to her...HELLO! Spend some time with them and perhaps they will grow attached. These people think that we should cater to THEM! I have a newsflash, it's a two-way street. If they expect us to go to the extra effort, perhaps they should consider missing ONE Sunday at their church to spend some time with their grandchildren at their church.

It's really pathetic and I know that I have to accept this behavior and not let it ruin my day; however, I can't help but feel slighted by this behavior. Again, if this were an isolated incident, perhaps I'd be a little bit more understanding.

Ok, I just needed to vent it out. I have mentioned before that without my smoke, I struggle to find a place to "put" my emotions. Thanks for reading if you made it this far Smile
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Rach
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Pamela



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PostPosted: June 13, 2004 2:06 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rach, what can I say that will help? It's a no win situation, and folks like these never seem to get the message that they are slighting you or hurting your feelings.

About the only thing you can do is what you did...rant and vent here Exclamation I just read an article in a magazine about venting your feelings by writing unsent letters......and I guess this is as close as you can get to doing that.

Actually, that is a good idea of a way to "put" your emotions somewhere. Writing a letter to someone about what you REALLY think...and then never sending it.

Anyway, hope by now you've calmed down, and forgotten (right) the situation. At least do NOT let it ruin your day. Smile. Very Happy Take a deep breath (you can now), and be thankful you DON'T have to spend a lot more time with them!
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kannprint



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PostPosted: June 13, 2004 2:15 PM    Post subject: You're Absolutely Right Reply with quote

Rach,

You're absolutely correct in not feeling too sorry for your in-laws. They really have no right to complain about your children not being "close" to them if they've made no effort.

Rach, I'm coming at this from the other side -- I'm a grandma. We have 4 granddaughters who are very dear to us. They're 18, 15, 14 & 12 so are extremely busy with their school, church and social lives. Sorry to say it, but Grandma and Grandpa just aren't at the top of their priority list. That's fine and as it should be. If we want to talk with them, we phone or e-mail. Your in-laws could do the same.

Like you and your husband, our daughter and son-in-law are extremely busy with full-time jobs, school activities for the girls, church activities, athletics for the girls, etc. I dont understand why your in-laws don't remember how much time it takes for parents to raise children correctly. You know, Rach, perhaps it's just that they're getting older, are less busy and have more time to have "pity parties." Lots of we senior citizens thrive on our "pity parties." What a terrible waste of time.

Well, I've rambled on too long but wanted you to know that it isn't just you; that someone of an older generation understands what your problem is and why you're so upset.

Hope things straighten out. This has to be difficult on the entire family.

Living free for 2M, 2D, 16H, 43M & loving it.
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Tammy



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PostPosted: June 13, 2004 11:24 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rach, thanks for posting this. Yesterday I posted in Margarets post (about tired depressed and desperate), that I had, had a very bad day and cried my heart out. Well guess what it was over? In Laws. My husbands mom and dad are divorced many years. His mom is wonderful. His dad and that side of the family another story. I do beleive they are ALL emotional retards. They have no abiltiy to care it seems. As most of you know I have really had a rough time dealing with Ron and this depression since the bi pass. Needless to say it is starting to take it toll on me listening to him cry everyday. I have felt very overwhelmed and alone. I have none of my family here. I have called his dad, brother and both sisters to see if they could help. maybe call him and encourage him send a card something. Maybe just listen to him awhile to give me a break. That was a few weeks ago. Well to this day brother has called once and that was it. Yesterday his aunt called not to check on him but to see if we were coming to her daughters wedding. As we started to talk I began to have a melt down. Do you have any idea what she said to me? She said I ought to quit feeling sorry for myself. I hung up on her. I could not believe what I was hearing from her. I have been tending to his every need with no help from anyone and I don't have the right to rant awhile. I guess I am so upset with his family because he has gone out of his way so so many times to see them while on our vacation or to make a trip to see them on the weekend. They all live in state except the one sis. They all have children too and uncle Ron has always come through with b-day gifts, wedding and grad plus those extra treats. I just do not understand why they will not reach out to him. It hurts me so bad for him. He knows they have not called or sent any notes. His dad came and sat with me while he was in surgery, that was almost 8 months ago haven't seen him since. Neither sister sent a card or called ever. I just don't get it. I'd like to give them all a piece of my mind. I think I will do what Pam suggested and write them all a letter and not send it. Or maybe I will Wink Anyway thanks for letting me rant here awhile.
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Zuzu



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PostPosted: June 14, 2004 1:12 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Rach... I'm not trying to "fix" anything - but perhaps merely offer constructive solutions to explore?? I'm not sure..

What about having a conversation and telling the in laws how you feel? Maybe.. possibly... they felt their words would make you feel good... show you that they like your children, enjoy being around them and wish they had more time with them.

I wonder how they would react to a conversation, "at the children's bible school celebration you'd said you'd like to see the kids more often. I think that's wonderful, I hear you want to spend more time with them. Let's figure out a way to make that happen. Do you have any suggestions?" And I think after you figure out some strategies to meet their needs it's totally fair to follow up with a, "okay, so while I appreciate that you enjoy our children and want to see them, I need to tell you how it felt to hear about your desires to spend more time with the kids and then see you leave their party within twenty minutes of arriving.... it made me feel like you were simply making platitudes and that our children really aren't a priority in your life." Let them respond. How do you think they'd respond?

What about asking them to take the kids with them to THEIR church one Sunday, so your children can meet their spiritual community?

Just a few thoughts.

I hope you feel better!

-Zuzu
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Rach



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PostPosted: June 14, 2004 4:12 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to everyone for their insights. I'm feeling much better now that I've slept on it.

This situation with the in-laws has been a problem from the start. Zuzu, you nailed it with the communication suggestions. We are just very different in many ways. I tend to wear my emotions outward where they are not likely to share in that way. There is quite a lot of water under the bridge and I have attempted to express myself to them with respect and kindness, but things usually end up like this. My husband told me from the start that I shouldn't work myself up over it nor should I put much energy into it because they just are this way and have never been willing to communicate about it or come "halfway". These are people that would rather be tortured that admit one IOTA of responsibility for any problems. It's terribly frustrating as I have the inability to "let it go". So, that's something that I recognize and need to work on for myself. My biggest frustration is that I just can't wrap my head around why anyone would CHOOSE to behave the way they do. That's the part I need to let go of. Some people are just jerks. They enjoy drama and keeping things stirred up and having beef with people because they feel so badly about themselves. I really believe this is the case with these two. I have some very sound reasons for this belief. It's hard to keep myself on track and remember that their insensitive behavior and commentary is a direct reflection of what is going on inside of them and NOT a definition of me. It's hard NOT to be defensive when someone is hurting you.

I have made it very easy for them to have a relationship with our family. THEY have chosen to make it difficult. In the end, they have to live with the consequences of that. It's a great lesson on how NOT to be when my children are grown. My mother always says to "rise above it" and that's what I'm working on doing. I cannot control how they respond to us. I only have control of my response. If I choose to rise above their poor behavior, that's less fuel for their drama.
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Rach



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PostPosted: June 14, 2004 4:22 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more thing for the grandmas...

One of the reasons that this situation is such a burden to me is because I am very close with my grandmother. She always spent time with me as a kid and taught me things that she enjoyed. She is 77 years old and drives 40 miles one way once per week to spend time with my kids (her great-greandsons). I would do ANYTHING for her and I always remember her on special occasions and on a whim. When she is no longer able to travel the way she does, I will make the effort to visit her as much as I can and remember her. I adore her so much because when we're together, she always devotes attention to me...not with little gifts, but actually sits with me and LISTENS to me. I'm sure she'd be surprised to know how highly I think of her, even though I feel like I do go out of my way to show her. I think it's all in perception. Someone's response was about forgetting what it was like to have little kids. Amen to that! As much as I would love to make sure that the kids see grandparents once a week or whatever, it's just not logistically possible. Grandmas...you ARE appreciated more that you know!
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Zuzu



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PostPosted: June 14, 2004 8:15 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rach-

As I was reading your responses I was thinking about what you're saying about how you're different people and process things differently... likely different intent and action. There are some personality types that are simply oil and water - major conflicts between personality types are often times text-book obvious once you learn what the text books have to say... Have you ever taken a myer's briggs test and do you ever think about what they (your in-laws) might be in terms of their personality types?

You'd said you process things externally - like an extrovert. So do you think that they're introverts (it sounds like they might be "I"s and "J"s - internally process things and apt to judge "J" things/people in black and white as opposed to see the shades of grey that a "perceiver" (P) might see)?

If you're an Extrovert and a Perceiver (and EP as opposed to IJ) you'd feel like they're silently judging you and that their comments are coming out of left field because they never communicated the thought process which lead them to their conclusions. They, on the otherhand (if they are IJs and you're an EP), perhaps feel you over-react and aren't sure what to do with your emotions.

So the major meyer's briggs catagories are:
Introvert or extrovert (I or E)
Intuitor or Sensor (N or S)
Thinker or Feeler (T or F)
Judger or Perceiver (J or P)

An introvert processes emotions and things internally, an extrovert, externally. The majority of the population (~70%) are extroverts. Introverts feel energized from time spent alone and generally depleted from large group activities. Extroverts feel energized from being around larege groups of people and generally depleted from being alone.

Intuitors don't read the directions on how to put things together.. they prefer to figure it out and enjoy figuring it out. Sensors read the directions and prefer following the directions step by step. If you tell a sensor to "stop by anytime" it's not empowering, they're not going to do it, they'll be frustrated by the invitation to "stop by anytime" and often feel it's not very guinine.. give them explicity and exact times to stop by.. they'll be there, feel welcomed and invited. Tell an intuitor to "stop by anytime" and they will! They'll feel welcomed and invited into your home. Tell an intuitor to be there Saturday at 6 and they'll feel like you've just cramped their style. Having different personality types when it comes to N's and S's can cause really big rifts - knowing the differences, however, can help overcome the differences.

Some people "think" throught emotional issues, others "feel" their way through emotional issues. This doesn't mean that thinker's don't feel nor does it mean that feeler's don't think.. it's merely about the process people initially use to work through things. I'm a TOTAL "T" and don't really understand "feelers." Feelers feel that thinkers are "wrong" in how they process the world. Thinkers think that feelers are "wrong" in how they process the world. That's a common rift. This is a tough one to overcome... everyone just has to slow down and respect folks are coming from different perspectives.. both sides gotta give.

Finally... there are "judger's" and "perceivers." Judgers are apt to see things more in terms of extremes, black and white, good and bad, etc. Perceivers are more apt to see shades of gray, there's good and bad in everything. I have a friend who is a judger while I'm a perceiver. I find that she's very judgemental of people and situations. Me, on the otherhand, as a perceiver, I never see it as so cut and dry... there's good and bad in virtually everything. (And often times I think if I were to apply the rigid judgements she does to the world that I wouldn't be friends with her.. she'd likely be lumped in the "bad" - but I like her because I can see the good in her.. that side of her is precious to me.... ) Judgers will feel perceivers are "wishy washy" or not taking a stand. A perceiver will often times describe the pros and cons of an issue while a judger will take a firm stand on one side or another of an issue.

In addition to the various Meyer's Briggs personality traits (I think a total of 16 different combinations) there is also a motivational "triangle." People are motivated typically perdominantly by two of the three: Power, Affiliation and/or Achievement.

Examples of motivators are:

Power - someone who likes to change the system, big picture solutions.
Affiliation - someone who likes to do things with other people.
Achiever - someone who likes to get things done, accomplish.

Whatever your two dominant motivational factors. people who have polar combinations can drive you absolutely crazy.

For example, my primary motivators are achievement and power. People who are affiliators have a tendency to drive me nuts - I have little patience for them and can often only tolerate them when their motivator combination includes achievement (my predominat motivator) as opposed to power (my secondary motivator). Most politicians are motivated by power and affiliation.... and true to my personality type and my motivators I must add a sarcastic "unfortunately.. this is why nothing of true importance or substance is achieved by a politician..."

For me, the motivators are more illuminating when it comes to interpersonal rifts than the meyer's briggs information - though both are quite interesting.

It's not that opposites are oil and water. In speaking with someone who does community building this past weekend, they relay that the N/S and P/J parts of the equation are likely the most important in dictating whether people get on together and what they're major problems are likely to be with one another.

For me, understanding some of the different archetypes helps me to understand the differences between intent and impact of various actions and words.

You might feel, for example, that encouraging your in-laws to "stop by anytime" is showing them that your door is always open, they are always welcome (a very "N" way to communicate.) They might have a need for more specific instruction, "come by Sunday from 6 to 9." (An "S's" wetdream!)

You might feel that they're judging you for not making more time available for them to spend with the kids.. this is either about YOU being a "J" and feeling judged or them being J's and the P in your feeling like they're trying to put something in a box (e.g. the way you're making the kids available) as "bad" when you see ways that the way you're doing things is really "good." You might get frustrated that they don't see more sides of the cube on this issue. As you can tell, I'm a total "P" - this is just both sides of coin, neither one is right or wrong, it's just the description... it's all relative.. a judger would say, "oh no, no.. that way is just plane wrong.. take a stand! Make them do it the "right" way.. your way.. you're being generous and opening your door to them."

So... I don't know if this is helpful.. but it might lend some insight or provide some fodder for conversation with them... or lead to new directions to attempt re: communication. I'm thinking of you Rach.. and know you'll figure this out... because... well.. you're the bomb!

-Zuzu


Last edited by Zuzu on June 16, 2004 12:57 AM; edited 1 time in total
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Rach



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PostPosted: June 14, 2004 8:44 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zuzu:

Loved that! That's probably the BEST insight I've ever gotten about this. This has been such a source of frustration/conflict/hurt for me since I married my husband.

I think you are are right about the categories that you put us (me & the inlaws) into. I'll be the first to admit that I have a terribly hard time "understanding" an introvert. That doesn't mean I don't like them. My husband is an introvert and our "opposite-ness" works really well in our relationship. I see a lot of them in him and, at times, I get frustrated with it...mainly because I don't know how to DEAL with it (or which box my perception of his behavior should go into).

That being said, I know it within me to get along with these people. A light went on in my head when you mentioned giving them a specific date and time. They usually always oblige us there...and I'm usually surprised at how long they stay. Mind you, they aren't playing or connecting in any way with my kids...they're usually chatting it up with hubby or I about some controversial issue (which is annoying to me because I find these debates a waste of my energy and believe that dad-in-law likes to hear himself talk, but that's another issue). They'll sit and WATCH my 2 and 4 year-old act silly or dance around or tell a story...but they don't engage. I don't understand that either. Nonetheless, I have many very different friends, so I know that it's possible for me to do this. I just feel like I'm always the one trying to communicate, trying to make them feel included, trying to do special things and it doesn't make a difference. They are still insensitive about the things they say and do.

Example: My mother-in-law told me that someone in town (mind you this is a small town...like 2,500 people) asked her if I was anorexic. Now, I immediately felt defensive because she's telling me that someone is talking about me, and it's not in a very flattering light. I asked her who would say such a thing. Her response? She doesn't remember! Not knowing HOW to respond, I just said that I hoped she corrected that person and that was a pretty personal thing for someone to ask. My husband called her on it and asked again who said it and pretty much related to her that he didn't believe that she couldn't remember. Turns out it was his aunt who asked who had just been visiting. Mom in law said she was "concerned becauase Rach is so skinny". Ok, so first of all, both of them are overweight. I've never said "So, you're looking heavier these days, are you obese or something? Don't you think you've had enough donuts today because it's showing on your thighs?" Second, her delivery of the story did NOT come from a place of care and concern...and if she really thinks it did, then her issues are far beyond some differences in personality traits. Third, did she honestly think that wasn't going to bug me? Maybe she did. It's amazing to me that people think that basically telling someone that they're disgustingly thin doesn't hurt.

Anyway, that's just the tip of the iceberg. We are on decent terms now, but it always goes in cycles. This deal with the kids is just the peak of another cycle. I appreciate so much, Zuzu, your take on this because I don't feel judged or attacked. I'd love to hear any other insights that you have.
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Leona



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PostPosted: June 14, 2004 10:18 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rach

I like you adore my grandmother. I think the sun and moon rises and sets with this lady. She raised me so she was more like a mother to me. But we were and are still very close. I no longer get to go and visit her nor has she been able to meet my children due to circumstances that is fianacial circumstances. She is now 94 years old and I make a point of calling her every month and sending her b cards motherday cards christmas cards thanksgiving etc. I thinkyou get the point. I would die for this lady if it were something that was required of me. She gave me a life that I can never repay and would not even know how to begin to repay. I will miss her beyond anyone else when she passes and I don't know what I will do with out her she has been my rock and my salvation for 44 years. So I do understand what you are saying about your grandmother and no I cannot understand your inlaws attitude either. All I can say is pray for them each and every day. Perhaps one day they will see the error of their ways and want more. All we can do is pray for them and hope.

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MrsGreatly



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PostPosted: June 15, 2004 1:20 AM    Post subject: Venting is good Reply with quote

Hello, Rach...glad to meet you and so glad I read your post...I feel for you, love, from the bottom of my heart. I have 4 beautiful kids, 3 sons and 1 daughter. And the light of my life are my 4 grandkids...2 16 year olds, Kayla and Zachary, 1 5 year old...Gustav (Gussie) and brand new Noah...2 weeks...I cannot imaging loving as much as I love those special kids...I cannot imagine my life without them...Even though I now live about 12,000 miles away from my own kids and about 1,000 away from my husband's kids, we talk on the phone, computer, write, and thank the good Lord above I have been able to visit them last summer and will be going over again in a week from today. In February, Ron and I will be going to Brisbane to visit Noah and Ron's daughter, Marcella will be having a new one in January.

I had to have the Queen of Bad Mother-in-Laws! She has never once in her whole miserable life ever done anything for anyone. My ex, her "baby" never helped matters any...I swear he is in love with her and will never be able to have a relationship with an other woman even after his mother goes to her "reward." She will live to be at least 200 just for spite!
This woman made me miserable for 23 years...She had to have THE DIRTIEST house...she even had dust on her soap in her shower! And constantly made comments about my housekeeping!
She even tried to dictate how many children I should have..."Don't you know it costs MONEY to have kids...
Their father used to make the kids write to her...they never got an answer and he would tell them..."she doesn't have to write to you."
She would only flush her toilet once a day to save money...make a pot of soup in an aluminum pot...store the soup in the same pot in the fridge and eat it for a week...wondered why she always had stomach trouble...
I didn't go to college until I was 33...I had four little kids and still managed to earn a 4.0 grade average...Did I get credit...NO...she said...You just can't find more ways to spend Ritchie's money...and you must be sleeping with the teachers to get good grades! Never once did my ex ever take my side...why did I stay for 23 years?
Need I go on?
When she came for a visit (for 2 weeks at a time) I thought I would probably end up killing her and go to prison...I opted instead to try to attach a nipple to the scotch bottle...and make sure I had plenty of Laughing Demon
Today the old bag is in a nursing home...my ex's new wife won't allow her in her house...no one except Ritchie goes to visit her...she doesn't even know the names of her greatgrandkids...isn't that pathetic...and believe me, it's her choice.
At least I learned one good thing from her...HOW NOT TO BE A MOTHER-IN-LAW.
Last summer when I had to leave my daughter's house to come back to Australia, my son-in-law put his arms around me and just sobbed and sobbed. My daughter told me later that he had to cancel his patients (he's a dentist) and come home and lie down because he was so upset.
Now isn't that the most beautiful tribute to a mother-in-law...(either that or he was so damned glad to see me go... Laughing
So, Rach...we are all sisters together...Isn't it great to have a place to vent...
Just let it go, love...you have your husband and kids...don't let anyone spoil that...
Today I have a wonderful husband, who shows his love for me in his own gentle way everyday...His mother was great...beautiful lady.
...Thank god I got to meet her...she passed away last year at 94...but at least I can say I did manage to get a good mother-in-law after all.
Much Love
MrsGreatly
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Rach



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Posts: 270
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PostPosted: June 15, 2004 11:34 AM    Post subject: Reply with quote

THank you guys so much for all of your kind words. It's nice to know that I've made such an impression on people I've never even met in person! I guess that should tell me something.

Mrs. Greatly: You win for the the worst Mother-in-Law (or ex mother in law). You can imagine what I'm picturing she's like.

Maggie: You are a hotty for 65! I only HOPE I look that good 33 years from now!

Grandmas: Know that you are loved.

Zuzu: I'm firing my therapist...do you have any appts open? Smile
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Zuzu



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PostPosted: June 16, 2004 2:55 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow.. there's so much in this thread!

So, as an introvert I'm more than happy to illuminate the inner workings of an introvert.. heh. I'm a very extroverted introvert (grin) if that makes sense.

The woman I bought property with in an extrovert, and a feeler. Initially in our relationship I perceived her as a very emotionally abusive person. Something would happen to her or her kids.. she's get really worked up about it emotionally.. come sit in my living room and talk about it.. vent.. get very emotionally stirred, sometimes start crying she was so worked up.. and then she'd leave. For her, the opportunity to say out loud what she was feeling and work out her emotions externally... that was cathartic and she felt better. As an introvert/thinker.. I felt like she dumped all this stuff on me and left me to internally process all this information and emotion.. ouch. She left the room feel lighter.. I was left feeling burdened and very heavy. Now any extrovert/feeler would say, "she JUST needed to get it off her chest.... what's the big deal." Any introvert/thinker would say, "wow, how selfish." Neither is right/correct in their assessments... it IS a big deal to an introvert/thinker and it's not at all selfish from the perspective of an extrovert/feeler.

Now there's an example of conflict between those personality types. Many of my friends are extrovert/feelers because I find them so entertaining.. I enjoy the differences and mostly find the extrovert qualities to be very dramatic and entertaining and the feeler qualities often spark the thinker in me. I find them to be very complementary to my personality types and very entertaining. What do they get from me... well, I'm sure you know, with your husband, for example, that once you realize that his silence is judgement but more often contemplation, an extrovert/feeler can feel VERY heard and listened to by an introvert.. and the thinker qualities about them can help them place some emotional logic on what sometimes feels like emotions in chaos. My feeler friends often come to me with relationship problems and wish they "had my cool head" in the moment to work through problems as opposed to "reacting from their emotions" and sometimes making things worse as a result. The introvert and the extrovert and the thinker and feeler OFTEN complement one another (though you can certainly see the potential for conflict.)

The myers briggs workshop I went through (years ago, by the way) was fun and interesting. One of the exercizes was that people of similar personality archetypes were brought together to design their ideal living spaces. The extroverts often planned living spaces with large entertainment areas for parties. The introverts, on the other hand, planned lots of cozy small rooms more suitable for meditation or small initimate gatherings of people. The feelers had photographs of family and friends throughout their homes, the thinkers had abstract art and sculptures.

As an introvert, attending your children's gathering at your church, I'd feel depleted in a large crowd of people I didn't know well. I would attend out of a sense of obligation, to make an appearance, but would feel uncomfortable and awkward the entire time I was there. I'd wish I had a smaller and more intimate gathering to spend time with the kids. If you got upset with me about it, as a thinker, I'd say, "I don't know what you're getting upset about, it's not like I could spend any quality time with your children when all those people were around" and I'd think you were over reacting. From the introvert/thinker perspective.. that's how they might have processed that experience.

My mother is an extrovert/feeler... as I was planning to attend my grandmother's 90th birthday party recently I thought.. what's the point in attending... there will be all these people there, I won't have any real time one on one with grandma.. it won't be like I really get to see her, and I don't like large groups. Then I thought about it further and thought about how important it would be for my mother for me to attend. So I went for my mom. I didn't enjoy the big group stuff.. I didn't enjoy the party itself.. I don't feel like I got to spend time with grandma.. but as we start understanding other's needs... we compromise. My mother was so delighted I came.. four of her closest friends drew me aside and expressed how much this meant to my mom, how thrilled she was, how happy this made her.

I share this and say I adore my mother, we get along great, we complement one another as I noted EF's and IT's can. We have a wonderful time together, take walks, go to movies - it's an awesome relationship that is really fufilling and positive. I wonder, since the time we spend together more "alone" is so great, why must I compromise and participate in these activities that I don't enjoy, that I find uncomfortable? You likely know the answer to that question better than I, Rach.... I truthfully participate and pretend to enjoy it because I know it will make her happy and it does - because I know it's something important to her. And I can never really take seriously when she gets upset that sometimes I don't compromise, sometimes I don't participate when I know it's not going to be fun for me...

Maybe that's illuminating to the relationship on those fronts. While the EF/IT part can be more obviously easy to explain.. the most conflicts that are perhaps most difficult to overcome come from differences in the N or S and P and J areas.

I'm an intuiter as opposed to a senser (I prefer to figure it out as opposed to be given explicit directions... I prefer to make the rules than to understand and follow them... I prefer chaos to order... ) Sensors and intuiters need one another in a holistic system, but it's hard for either to value or respect the other. The inituitor will be the "big picture" thinker who comes up with grand schemes. The senser is the practical assesser who does the accounting, writes the checks, wants to know "how" and will ultimately be the person who crosses the T when we know nothing could actually happen without someone crossing that T and paying attention to details. Despite how these two traits really rely on one another to get things done.. they can fight like cats and dogs and have a tendency to devalue one another.

More later.. I gotta run to a meeting (ooops.. I really am supposed to be working!)

-Zuzu
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Angel



Quit Date:
November 11, 2004

Posts: 208
Location: MI

PostPosted: June 16, 2004 3:05 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did a Myers-Briggs workshop in my Officer Training (group dynamics / team building are part of being a platoon leader). It was very educational. I discovered that I'm not crazy, as my husband has been advertising for many years. Nor am I an emotional pack rat (he claimed that I stored up emotional reactions because I was scared to let them out). It turns out I am an Introverted/Thinking/Judging/Sensor (major type A) and he is an Extroverted/Feeling/Perceiving/Intuitor (total opposite). He spent years saying "if you would just talk to me it would be okay" and I spent years saying "if you would just leave me alone for an hour it will be okay".

This has nothing to do with smoking - I just wanted to recommend the Myers-Briggs to anyone who has the opportunity to take it.
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Rach



Quit Date:
February 7, 2004

Posts: 270
Location: Illinois

PostPosted: June 16, 2004 8:23 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zuzu:

I did an "abbreviated" Meyers/Briggs and I'm an ENFJ. One of the characteristics is the need for "closure" especially with loved ones. That was really illuminating for me because with so many conflicts I've had with the in-laws, one of the reasons it continues to be an issue for me is because I've felt there's no closure, or at least not a sincere one on their behalf in terms of agreeing we are different and remembering that before the next thing comes up...so with each new "incident", it's just one more thing that they are being insensitive about or whatever.

In your last post you mentioned the scenario with going to your grandmother's party to make your mother happy. That is the fundamental difference between you and my in-laws if, in fact, you have the same personality characteristics, which just proves once again in humans you can't REALLY measure anything and be able to predict based on it...only categorize and hypothesize...but I digress. My point here is that the very fact that you went because you knew how much it meant to your mother...because you love her and you want her to be happy...because her happiness in this case outweighs your discomfort with the situation...In the case with the kid's program...same thing, in my opinion. This was about Sam, who was so excited to show off what a big boy he is to his family who does not take part in his everyday life because they don't live in his community. He didn't see them, so he thought that they didn't come. He TOLD them that when they called later that day (because I left them a message telling them that he thought they didn't come at all and that maybe they should call and let him know they enjoyed his program). This is a CHILD who doesn't understand about these things. Sure, he's going to have to learn sooner or later that he's not the center of the universe, but at the same time, what is it to them to forego one Sunday a year at their church so that he knows that they were there and care? It is difficult for me to wrap my head around the idea that people can be so insensitive and clueless, but I really think this particular situation was insensitive and clueless.

It seems kind of moot now, especially in toddler world when the next event in their lives makes the last one seem like it happened 3 years ago. It helps to know where they're coming from emotionally in terms of my relationship with them. However, I think that it's sad that they can't put themselves 'out there' once in a while to put a smile on their grandkids faces.

Now, I know that it must seem like I'm hanging on to this and that I must be this extremely overly emotional person. I'm really not (hanging on to it...I admit being very emotional) other than the fact that all of this with the personality differences has come up and caused me to really examine the fact that the in-laws and I are coming from two different places emotionally and ideologically. Having a bird's eye of their point of view has shed some light on some of their behavior, but I also think that they have somewhat of an aloof attitude when it comes to my children. They're SON'S children that is. Totally different story with their other two grandchildren, who are also both boys, same ages and live 5 hours away (as opposed to 15 minutes from us) who they communicate with every day. These are their DAUGHTER'S children. Another issue that I think is worthy of examinination and if you know of any studies or have insights on this I'd be interested to know about it.

Angel:
YES YES YES...If they'd just TALK to me, my world would be in balance...I'm sure they're cringing! Smile
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Rach
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