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Bitterness....
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Zuzu



Quit Date:
-

Posts: 962
Location: Marin

PostPosted: April 24, 2004 5:46 PM    Post subject: Bitterness.... Reply with quote

The last few days I've been incredibly aware of how bitter and short-tempered I am.

I can't remember exactly when.. but somewhere in the first or second month I got terribly depressed. Essentially I felt agro all the time and I just didn't like who I was.. it's as though I'd replaced smoking with being agro. Don't fill the void with something like that.. it's ugly. I tried to "be" something other, but I just wasn't in touch with another me to be... and I seemed to be very in touch with being agro.. so... if the shoe fits as they say.

So I started working on my attitude. I've come pretty far - as Ed says, it's not even half as bad as it was and it was bad and it was wearing thin. But I assert (and he concurs) that I'm still very short-tempered.

So the issue is is that this really, really, really bothers me. I don't WANT to be agro, I don't ENJOY being short-tempered, I don't LIKE the me that's all bitter and thinking evil things. Thinking and being like I'm thinking and being is just as deadly as smoking. Bitterness makes life ugly and I want to make life beautiful.

Now.. it's NOT just today - I'm no more bitter and short-tempered today than I was yesterday. I'm just more wearied from and by my attitude.

No.. I'm not going to smoke and no I won't relapse over this. Or at least not today. But if someone who has experienced similar feelings and/or is experiencing something like this can give me some insights and perspective on attitudinal healing... I'm often for some sage advice.

I know that everything that happens is not related to smoking cessation. I know, however, that this short-tempered, bitterness that seems to pervade my feelings is NOT something I lived with so relentlessly BEFORE I stopped smoking. Somehow this is some kind of longer-term effect... any thoughts?

-Zuzu
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cherkohn



Quit Date:
March 15, 2004

Posts: 107
Location: Illinois, USA

PostPosted: April 24, 2004 7:34 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zuzu,

You are in control of how you feel. All you have to do is when you catch yourself feeling like that, think something else. I am sure you have had experience with changing your thoughts during your quit. When you were thinking about smoking, you forced yourself to think about something else.

Let me share my last year with you. My parents were living with me from January 2003. They both had lung cancer. Yes, I knew they were going to die and I was sad. But I had to not dwell on that sadness and make their last days as good as I could. Believe me that took some attitude adjustment!! Well, my dad died in march (on my birthday), my mom died in april. In May my brother was killed by a tornado. Needless to say I was in a grand funk for a while. But then I needed to get out of that for myself and the rest of my family. So, again, whenever I found myself remembereing all the sadness, I would force myself to remember some of the (many) good times I had had with my mom, dad and brother.

It was hard to do at first. I really had to work to remember good things. But it got easier and easier. I was in control of my thoughts. I still got sad, but it was not overwhelming and uncontrollable.

And if that wasn't enough, my daughter (15) was diagnosed with thyroid cancer in August. She has had surgery and radiation and it appears that she will be ok. But once again, I had to be in control of my thoughts. After all, how much can one person take.

In the end, I had learned how strong I could be. And was ready to apply that strength to quitting smoking.

So, my adivice to you is - use the incredible strength you have shown in quitting. Apply it to your attitude. And just DO NOT GO THERE. Just like you DO NOT SMOKE. You can do this too. Quitting smoking has given you many skills with which to deal with your life situations.

Hope this helps,

Cheryl
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Paula



Quit Date:
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Posts: 294
Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: April 24, 2004 10:23 PM    Post subject: Hang in there ZuZu Reply with quote

ZuZu,
I just wanted to remind you that you are not a bitter and argo person. Everything that I have ever seen you post has been nothing short of supportive, loving and kind. Sometimes we are our own worst enemies. Identifying things that make us feel bad is the first step to changing them.
I was very very glad to read your post... because for the past 12 hours or so, I have been ugly. I'm angry, I'm depressed and I don't like my attitude. I'm certainly glad I'm not the rest of my family that has to deal with it. Do I feel justified in doing it... no, but it's like I can't control it.
Thank you Cheryl for pointing out that we do have control of our attitudes. And thank you also for sharing some of your difficult situations, because as I read what you have been through, I am suddenly reminded that my life is easy street compared to what others have to go through sometimes.
Here's a big hug for ya, cuz I feel your pain... I am proud of you for saying it out loud, and very grateful that you shared, now I didn't feel lke I'm alone in the journey of change...

God Bless
-Paula
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Carol



Quit Date:
December 9, 2009

Posts: 631
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: April 24, 2004 11:43 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all did you read the grieving process in Module 5 at FFS? I am sure you did. Anyway it sounds to me like you are going through the anger phase....which is very normal. However I do not want to be so presumptuous as to think I know what is wrong with you or how you can fix it. I don't think you should beat yourself up with this though. If you look at the big picture here....4 months is not very long when you look at the grieving process. Have you tried journaling about it. Sometimes that helps us identify exactly what the underlying issue is. Do take care of yourself, I do believe things will get better.
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Zuzu



Quit Date:
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Posts: 962
Location: Marin

PostPosted: April 25, 2004 3:06 AM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. Thank you each for your thoughtful reply.

Cheryl... I've never had to "try" to not be agro before... it's come pretty naturally to be level headed.. I don't want to try.. I just want "nicer" to be "normal".... if that makes sense.... and you're absolutely right.. if it ain't there.. at the very least I can act as if and see what happens.

Paula.. you gave me a chuckle.. see.. I'm NICE when I'm here. It's Ed who has a fork sticking out of his chest, laying face up on the living room floor with that sickly look in his eyes.. (kidding.) If Psychic darts could kill, I wouldn't have any neighbors.

LIke you I don't wholly feel like I have much control over this stuff... but I DO have more today then I did even two months ago... that's hopeful.

Carol - I don't feel like I'm grieving. But maybe the fact that I don't want that to be the answer (why not? Hmmmm....) means that at least part of it IS the answer. What I resist is often got some truth in it.

Breathe... breathe again.

I feel like I have to forgive. To let go. To abandon a right to lay claim on this anger.. to relinquish this ownership over indignation. To forgive.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for your words of wisdom.

-Zuzu
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Carol



Quit Date:
December 9, 2009

Posts: 631
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: April 25, 2004 9:43 AM    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sorry Zuzu, first of all you need to tell this rural Wisconsin Gramma what "argo" means. I am a little lost on that one.
Any way in reference to your last paragraph you said you feel like you have to forgive.....Forgive who? You also said you feel as though you have to abandon a right to this anger...relinquish this indignation....what are are angry about,,,what are indinganant about. Before you can relinquish those feelings don't you think you need to identify their source. Both anger and indignation are secondary feelings used as a means of protecting from more vulnerable feelings....perhaps you need to look at the underlying vulnerable feelings,,,,before you are ready or able to forgive. And one last suggestion...sometimes unidentifiable anger is a symptom of depression. Which is often uncovered when a person stops an addiction. As I am sure you know addiction is sometimes a means of self medication.
Just my thought.....
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Marvel



Quit Date:
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Posts: 297
Location: Tennessee

PostPosted: April 25, 2004 12:28 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zuzu,

I think you've got a lot of good advice there, but I guess I can most relate to Carol's. When I quit smoking I had this la la princess idea that everything in life would be suddenly wonderful. Lots of things are, but I was one of those people who apparently used nicotine to self-medicate for whatever was wrong with or bothering me. Now that I don't use nicotine any more I've found that there are aspects of me (that I used to quell with a cigarette or two) that I don't like very much. I get angry, stressed, sad, whatever (fill in the blank) for no apparent reason. And da, therein lies the rub. There IS a reason and I have to figure it out. Now, mind you, I feel MUCH better overall than during the first few months, and I rarely have these emotions now. But I'm seeing a counselor now to help me (and my husband) figure out what's triggering these emotions. It's not nicotine withdrawal (which made me like Mr Hyde)!

So I'm tackling this in a spirit of discovery, curiosity, and trying to stay positive. And when I'm feeling really crappy and agitated I remind myself that I don't smoke. That always makes me feel better.
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Zuzu



Quit Date:
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Posts: 962
Location: Marin

PostPosted: April 25, 2004 1:23 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh.. agro as in aggravated (not agro as in "soil") heh.

Forgive... why do I feel I need to forgive and what do I feel I need to forgive? That's a great question and tied into everything I'm angry about really.

To "forgive" - in my understanding of forgiveness, its simplest definition is to "cease to feel resentment against."

What am I angry about? What am I indignant about? Heh.. I don't really want to make a list because these days that list is endless.. but I'll give you some examples:

I'm angry that despite numerous conversations with the neighbor, she continues to communicate with her children by screaming and yelling is a normal mode of communication (her kitchen window is spitting distance from my bedroom window.) Once again I was awoken at 5:30 am on a Sunday. I'm angry that she doesn't respect boundaries and my wishes in this regard. ((I'm indiginant about this because in my own childhood my father worked nights and slept during the day and noise was simply not allowed during the day... and yelling gave my mother migraines.. it was not an option. I KNOW that children are capable of communicating without yelling, that rules around respectful communication CAN be upheld in a household with relative ease... see.. self righteous anger.))

I'm angry that a good friend of mine came to visit from the City yesterday and was terribly rude to a person who lives in my community. My friend yelled at this guy for "driving too fast" in a residential neighborhood. (The guy was really only driving about 10 miles an hour.) THe guy stopped the car, explained that he has lived his entire life in this community, he was driving ten miles an hour, he understands the importance of being respectful in his own community and could she explain her problem to him because she was being rude and this upset him. I was angry at her.. becuase she was being rude, and because she is always rude like this to people... I invariably have at least one awkward and embarrassed moment with her.

I'm angry because I leant Ed's friend my digital camera for a photo shoot under the condition that he'd return it on the 16th and I took a vacation this week with intention of taking photos daily and Ed finally just drove up to Santa Rosa to pick up the camera himself Thursday because this guy made no effort to return it. He changed all the setting on the camera and I didn't discover this until I was up on the mountain missing my shots.

I'm more angry with the neighbor with the yelling children, for more reasons than merely the screaming.. but it feels tedious to go over every reason... Really, at this point, she can't breathe without me feeling angry about it. I have NOT acted or reacted toward her out of anger. I have only betrayed my anger and frustration a few times... appropriately, I believe, and controlled. But inside.. how I feel, the thoughts, whoa... how I focus on this anger.. it's unhealthy and not "normal" for me. Whoa.. just thinking about the list and the potential to narrow the list to provide some representative examples elevates my blood pressure.. I can feel it.. I have to breathe... breathe... I am moving toward resolution on this. I'm forcing her to move - by next June at the latest, but I'm putting pressure on such that it could happen in October. There is a resolution.... have patience.. have patience...

I'm angry because a woman friend stopped yesterday afternoon to see if I wanted to join her for a walk with the dogs - I'd had plans to walk with someone else, a mutual friend, and asked her to join us. I'm angry that I said yes because her dog barked.. it's a yippy, barky dog.. that's just what it does. I'm angry because I just wanted peace.

I'm angry because I have spent the last few months planting my first garden in DECADES... I'd saved money for the past few years and this year put in a lawn and a garden bed, both with irrigation and every free moment that I'm not in on the mountain with the dog I'm in the garden or reading about my plants and how to care for them. I'm angry because there is a gopher in the yard eating the roots of the plants and killing everything.

I'm angry that the "organic" pesticide seemingly killed the Chinese Lantern plants (or at least squashed their bloom... all the open flowers fell off.)

I'm angry because the new vet scarred the bigeebees out of Secret.. who was cowering in fear and shaking. I've rarely if ever seen her so freaked out (EVEN at the vet) with her confidence so shattered.

I'm angry because Ed won't get out of bed and we're to leave for the beach in a half hour.

I think therefor I'm angry. I breathe therefor I'm angry.

What do I need to forgive. I suppose I need to forgive the world for not being perfectly what I think it should be. I need to forgive the neighbor (I think I'll get to that once she moves away... it's gonna be hard to forgive her while she's around doing more things to be angry about.) I need to forgive the vet for not knowing Secret Agent Dog. I need to forgive the gopher for doing what comes natural to its gopher nature. I need to forgive my friend who was rude for doing something predictably in her character. I need to forgive my friend with the barky dog.. I need to forgive the barky dog for doing what comes natural to its barky dog nature. I need to forgive myself for feeling angry and to let go my anger about my anger.

And along with all the forgiveness I do need to do what you're suggesting too... figure out what's beneath the anger.

I am CERTAINLY depressed.. MOSTLY depressed because of the anger. Because I don't like myself when I'm filled with this hostility. I prefer to be filled with poetry. I prefer to be filled with compassion and love and hope and poetry. I wouldn't want to hang out with me if I were someone else.. if I were someone else knowing the thoughts and feelings so present in my mind and heart these days... I wouldn't want to hang out with me.

I've been thinking I should seek out a therapist.

I have many "reasons" to be depressed and/but I'm not depressed about most of the things that other people might cling to like some badge to provide an excuse for a lifetime of being maudlin and resentful. I just find depression, mostly, to be terribly boring. I find anger to be equally boring and I'm even angry that I'm angry and depressed about it.

What I think is key for me is that what I'm feeling is not "normal" for me. It's certainly not an interesting "new normal" even. If this is me unmedicated.. well, then I understand why I started medicating. But I don't even recognize this as an unmedicated me.. I was never an angry child.. willful, yes, headstrong, yes, determined, yes, but not terribly angry.

-Zuzu
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Zuzu



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Posts: 962
Location: Marin

PostPosted: April 25, 2004 1:30 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marvel-

Is it really for "no apparent reason" or is it that the emotional response doesn't seem/feel "right sized" for the event/action/situation?

What I'm experiencing is that perhaps annoyance or something smaller is a "reasonable" emotional response... but instead I feel somethign bigger.. anger and/or rage.. my emotional responses don't feel "right sized."

Certainly they feel more "right sized" than they did at first.. when rage was clearly a symptom of the withdrawal process... that was different.. I always felt rageful and in some ways I was able to laugh at it.

I'm not laughing about how I'm feeling now.. grooowwl...

Are you really having these feelings where there is nothing to instigate them.. no apparent reason.. or are these feelings connected to things but not right sized/proportional?

-Zuzu
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Carol



Quit Date:
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Posts: 631
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: April 25, 2004 2:00 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok Zuzu let's see if I got this right? You get up in the morning.........and you go to bed, and all the dots in between is your anger. It sounds to me like mostly you are angry because you can't control the people, things and situations of your world. But as you asked Marvel, are these ligitimate angers with nothing to instigate them. Well from what I read I would have been upset with the situations you described. However I would agree with you (understanding that I am many miles away and wasn't there) that you are overreacting and hanging on to the stimulants that cause your upset.
I think you are defining depression as a mood. I am defining it as a chemical imbalance in the brain. One that causes unrealistic anger, over reaction to irritations, trouble sleeping, eating too much or too little, lathargy. A sense that our world is spinning out of our control and we are scared because we can do nothing to stop it. An illness that makes us feel crazy when we know we are kind loving caring and compassionate people. (as you obviously are,,,or you would not even be concerned about this) See a doctor and describe what you are going through. Life doesn't have to be like this. See if your doc cant' help. I really don't think this is about smoking or not smoking.
You are worth so much more than being unhappy and unsatisfied with what is happening in your life. Now that you are a nonsmoker, do what you have to, to be able to enjoy life to the fullest
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Fightn4life



Quit Date:
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Posts: 1573
Location: Loysburg, PA

PostPosted: April 25, 2004 2:37 PM    Post subject: I can relate Reply with quote

Zuzu I can relate to everything you have written. There was a time in my quit I realized I couldn't stand the negitive me. The hateful me that lived hidden within my layes of self. I kept that person from being noticed by everyone but I felt the anger. The negitive thoughts that oozed through my thinking made me want to retreat within myself, and smoke again.

This was a big back door for me on many of my quits. I recall once my husband yelled at me while I was on our porch in PA how much he hated me as a stop smoker. I yelled back, "I hate myself too!!" I went to his truck and got a smoke. Another failed attempt.

This time I have had to work my way through these feeling's of anger, negitve thinking, and down right hating myself.

I smoked for over 30 years, who is this monster I am living within??

I was funny, positive, loved life as a smoker. Non smoking me sucks! So I thought.

Learning about this addiction has saved my life. Kevin's Tales of the quit have been a major help. I can relate to many of them.

Plus I am leaning to live again from the heart. I am still the same person. Smoking didn't change me. What I did was lift myself out from under the smokers mask. Hey there is a great big scary world out here that I have to deal with, with out my smokes.

I have just started to try and work on my thinking just as I did trying to quit smoking. One thought, one moment at a time.

I was really thinking about this depression and thinking about getting some kind of help when I read a post from Zoey about pretending. Wow! It hit right between the eyes. I knew then I wasn't alone in my depression.

From that day I have been writing five things I feel blessed with each day...(no excuses) and at least one positive goal for the day. I made up my mind to fight every negitive thought with it's counter partner positive.

Zuzu it is helping so much. I have always heard positive energy generates positive and neg/neg. My heart feels lighther, my smile more sincere, my attitude up-beat. I am changing again and this time I like the change.

I really think some of this depression is the demon knocking on our back door. I am learning everyday how to fight back. For now I look out the window, smile and and say go away! I am not a bad person.


You'll get through this Zuzu...all along I have heard, "this too will pass." And it does.

Sandyz
Six months, one day, 20 hours, 26 minutes and 7 seconds. 8318 cigarettes not smoked, saving $1,247.75. Life saved: 4 weeks, 21 hours, 10 minutes.
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Pamela



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PostPosted: April 25, 2004 3:34 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Zuzu...I've been following this thread, but really couldn't come up with anything to say that might make sense to you and help. Then I thought of my friend. He's been smoking for about 40 years, but at one point quit for 8 years! About 3 weeks into my quit, Bill and I met Roy and his wife Carol for lunch. Bill and I had both quit, and were talking to two heavy smokers, describing what we were going through. Scowling Demon

It was then that Roy told me that he had quit once before I knew him...for 8 years! I asked why after that long he ever went back to it....and this is what he said to me...."I didn't like myself not smoking!"

Well, if that isn't the biggest back door I ever heard just like Sandy said. But, at this point, I'm starting to see what he meant. Some of that thinking is starting to creep up on me.

My theory is that as smokers we build this smokey wall around us that insulates us from everything...it's how we control everything from anger to stress to joy to fear. Our every reaction to every single emotion that we feel is to smoke
Sad

When you quit, it was taking a peel off the orange, the skin off the banana....what's underneath is now "unprotected" and vunerable. since there's no smokey wall, everything is magnified, bigger, louder, scarier,......everything is just more "there". Are you unjustifiably angrier at things since you're not smoking? Probably just seems that way...and you'll adjust your 'anger" level to learn how to deal with it as a non smoker. And Yes, the really angry you might just be going through the "anger" part of the grief process.......and saying why the hell do I have to do this and feel this way and it isn't fair!

Anyway, I don't think what you're saying is strange at all....I can Id with a lot of it.....and what Sandy said. You have to learn how to adjust to the new normal that's the real you.....not the smoke covered chemically altered previous you.

And if you think you need a therapist by all means see one. I've thought of it, but then I keep telling myself to give myself more time.....34 years was a long time to mask my feelings....I'm not going to learn how to adjust to life not smoking in 2 or 3 months! But, if that's what it takes for me to relearn how to interact with people and emotions without beating myself up afterwords for feeling used....well then that's what i do.

And I love what Sandy said about positive thoughts. In the past, I would just dismiss that as a load of garbage and pshyco babble....but I'm thinking now that I have to start being kinder to me...more positive about me...more accepting of me.....otherwise I'll end up with that "I don't like me...." kind of thinking.

sometimes I think we're all a little crazy to be putting ourselves through this process without someone sticking a gun to our heads. Then, I remember that we were even crazier smoking, packing those little white death rods into our mouths!

Personally, I think you're one of the sanest people I've met on these boards...and I'm convinced that you just post some of this stuff here to get me to think again! PS...I'd be really PO'd at the gopher, too!

Confused Confused Smile Wink Wink
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cherkohn



Quit Date:
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Posts: 107
Location: Illinois, USA

PostPosted: April 25, 2004 5:51 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zuzu,

Yes you are angry!! But look at the things that you are angry about. I admit, even I cannot find good in some of them but:

You are angry because two friends that came to spend time with you did - whatever. YOU HAD TWO FRIENDS COME TO SPEND TIME WITH YOU!! How blessed is that!!

Hubby isn't rady to go to the beach in half an hour - it takes me several days to get to a beach (chicago is a long way from an ocean)

Digital camera is not where you want it to be - well you have a camera, and take some excellent photos.

Gopher eating the garden - rejoice that you have a garden. And be amused at the gopher. Imagine what you would be missing in a concrete junge.

I know it sounds trite - but look around and count your blessings. There are many of them apparent in your posts.

NOt the least of which - you have quit smoking.

Cheryl
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Carol



Quit Date:
December 9, 2009

Posts: 631
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: April 25, 2004 5:51 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

The gopher yes,,,,but that neighbor would get my first blast.
KAAAAAABOOOOOOOOOOOOM Scowling Demon Very Happy Laughing Demon Smile Mad Laughing
Very Happy Smile Surprised Laughing Surprised Laughing
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Tammy



Quit Date:
February 16, 2004

Posts: 2565
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PostPosted: April 25, 2004 8:34 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

My turn, Zuzu, I am sorry that you are having a bad time. I agree with a lot of what everyone has had to say here.

I just wanted to add this: I went through a very angry time for quite awhile before I quit. It was not who I was or who I had ever been but I found myself angry about everything. Not the kind of anger I have experienced since quitting that anger is different. The anger I had before was like you said (fork in chest anger).

What I found was that it was overwhelming stress. Actually the quit has been the best thing that I have ever done for me. You know how I've said in some of my post's that I was very selfish when it came to my quit? well I was and during the quit I took very good care of me. I rested, I took extra long hot showers, I soaked in the hot tub as long as I wanted. I did what ever I needed to do for me. As the days passed I started realizing that my anger was going away. I truly believe it has gone because I recouperated from all of the prior stress I had been under. Quitting was stressful too but I was taking it easy during the quit. I was angry some but everyday that has passed I am better and better. Now if I start to feel overwhelmed I say I am taking a little break a time out for me. It works.

I read a lot of your post you seemed to be stressed about deadlines and such. now I see screaming neighboors and thier kids. That would stress me. Maybe you just need some down time? I think we all need that from time to time. I know I sure did. Just something to think about.

Always count your blessings
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