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Pamela



Quit Date:
-

Posts: 3542
Location: Gardiner, NY

PostPosted: December 28, 2004 1:56 PM    Post subject: Angry Reply with quote

Many quitters here and at FFS have faced periods in their quits where they experience unusually strong anger, towards themselves, others, or just in general. Mostly, these bouts of intense anger come fairly early on in quits...maybe the first month or two, and is part of the "grieving" process that goes along with quitting smoking.

I'm over 10 months quit now, and have lately been prone to very angry attacks about all sorts of things, to just about anyone who will listen. Here are some of the things I get angry about:

1) Having to spend my Christmas in company of Mr. Bill's entire family, listening to them "bush bash" and want to kiss Michael Moore. I don't care what their politics are, I just don't want to have it shoved down my throat all Christmas Day.

2) Our best friends (smokers) of 20+ years have gone from twice a week contact, to no contact in over two months. In the last year, I've initiated all contact, and after last speaking with them before Halloween, vowed to wait until they called us. I'm still waiting, with their presents sitting under our tree, ready to be gifted. I'm damn mad at either having lost two good friends, or finally realizing that they were never really good friends after all.

3) Our local friends' table manners. He is a pig, every time he comes to our house for a meal. The other night, they came for cassoulet...this is a french "stew" made with black beans and four different kinds of sausages. It's served in a bowl, like a hearty soup, with a salad and crusty bread. Our friend, using his fork, picked out all the sausages in his first bowl, then requested more "meat". I gave him another ladle of soup. He then picked all the sausages out of that bowl, leaving the "soup" and beans, and asked for more meat. I lost it, told him no, and to eat his beans. What's that all about?

I could go on and on, and on. Basically, everything lately pisses me off. And, now that I'm not hiding behind the smokescreen, I have no trouble getting my point out in the open. I'm being very vocal, to say the least.

I guess my question is....was I always this angry, and just didn't let it get to me and show? Am I just now starting to let things get to me? Will this anger blow over? Will I ever have any friends...no, truth is, I have virtually NO friends left (except here)?

Has this got anything to do with smoking or nor smoking? Or, am I just a royal bitch?

Anywho, I just felt better writing some of this down, and getting it out. Feel free to comment!

Rolling Eyes
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law_girl_1969



Quit Date:
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Posts: 626
Location: Freeburg, Illinois

PostPosted: December 28, 2004 2:49 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Pamela, this is as good a place as any to make my return to these boards. I'm on day 2 of my quit after a month of full blown relapsing over - you guessed it - what I called anger. Well, that's what started it, that's what helped me continue to choose to smoke again for a while.

But I learned something along the way about anger. Can't remember where I heard it, but it was probably Dr. Phil. Sorry if you're not a fan, but sometimes he makes a lot of sense to me Wink He said that when most people say they are angry, they are actually USUALLY one of three things: hurt, afraid, or frustrated. So, I wouldn't be too hard on yourself, because I think you are more those things in the situations you mentioned. Insensitive friends are hurtful, people who won't let another viewpoint be voiced frustrate me, etc.

When I chose to smoke this past month or so, I had hit the boiling point, and I didn't like it. So, I made the addict's choice and instead of dealing with it all, I started the smokescreen up again. I know you won't make such poor judgements.

Feel your feelings and remind yourself of your rights to feel the way you feel. We can't choose what happens to us in our life, but we can often choose who we surround ourselves with and how we react to the events unfolding around us. I think you handled yourself quite well, and I don't think you're an angry person at all...you've always been kind to me!!!

Take care of you my dear!
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"There are those who think they can and those who think they can't and they are both right." Henry Ford
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Carla



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Posts: 347
Location: Kansas City, MO

PostPosted: December 28, 2004 3:27 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pam, I vote for royal bitch and I think that's a good thing. I don't know if it has anything to do with smoking or not smoking, but I, too, have started expressing myself in the past few months and I like it. I don't think I'm being mean, but I'm not turning the other cheek and being "nice" like I used to be. I think you were justified in being angry in all of thoe situations. You still have friends here. Smile
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Quit Date: January 4, 2004
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Zuzu



Quit Date:
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Posts: 962
Location: Marin

PostPosted: December 28, 2004 3:56 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lynn is wise beyond what looks to me like her 20 years of age (she can't help it if she's a hottie.. wink!)

Sometimes I still feel my anger and resentment more strongly than I prefer. Before I stopped smoking I viewed myself as VERY easy going - let things roll over me like water off a duck's back. Now I have a harder time, hold onto resentments and anger longer, have a greater magnitude of these emotions relative to the situation. It's surely lessened since those early days but I'd say I'm not back to baseline (or "pre-quit" levels.) [[There was a time earlier in my stopping smoking where I felt this anger and icky stuff and it's all I saw.. I really didn't like it.. didn't like the me emerging.. that's when I realized that the addiction was still talking and I had more work to do on me with this addiction...]]

It's usually, as you note, things you can really get behind, feel justified in being angry about. You know, you are clearly "right" and the other person/people is/are clearly "wrong" and so this gives us the right to stand on our judgments. So we stand here with our self righteous indignation fuming.. and who is really harmed by this? Not the smoking friends who don't like being made so aware of their addiction by your ability to conquer yours. Not the blue people in a red ration. Not the neighbor who doesn't like beans yet remains hungry. The anger is eating you.

To forgive is to let go the right to lay claim on these situations - to abandon our righteous indignation - because in doing so we set OURSELVES free. Because to forgive means that we liberate ourselves from those feelings. When we hold on to them we come to define ourselves by them.

I like the AA principal to act "as if." Even when you can't wholly forgive or you're having a difficult time doing it - fake it till you make it.

For example, I have a new years resolution not to talk smack about the neighbor. She makes me angry. My anger is justified... let me count the ways. But this is no way to live and be and angry isn't how I want to be "beyond the smokescreen." And so I need to choose what I'm going to feel in response to these things OTHER than anger.. because what we feel, those things in our hearts, really define who we are. Again, this is living with intention.

Before, we'd get angry.. heck, perhaps we'd feel ANYTHING, and we'd medicate the emotion with nicotine. Personally I found it "easier" to embrace the intensity of joy and happiness without shirking and running from it - much harder to embrace the intensity of my anger and resentments. All these feelings must find their level and nurture us, ultimately, toward our personal growth - perhaps in the case of anger and resentment, us finding ways to embrace these feelings, experience them in a "right sized" manner and forgive (ourselves and others) IS the personal growth we need... maybe. Just a thought.

It doesn't matter if you're right - what matters is that you don't like how you feel... that you don't want to be consumed with anger and resentment. So.... how you gonna forgive.. because beyond the smoke screen that's the stuff we gotta figure out. I don't think this is a rant.. I think it's part of our road to recovery....

You're an AWESOME woman, with beautiful gifts to give and receive in this life... your wisdoms and support have touched many and you have shown amazing strength in conquering this addiction. That's the part of you that needs to shine for yourself.. my guess is that when you're in touch with THAT woman, you like her (and the smoking friends, and the blue people and the bean-hating neighbor) quite a bit more. Just a thought...

-Zuzu
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ms_tapestry



Quit Date:
October 21, 2009

Posts: 2574
Location: Seminole, TX

PostPosted: December 28, 2004 4:03 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pam, before I Quit when someone upset me I would retreat behind the smoke screen. After a smoke or two, I pretty much just let it go. Sometimes that was a good thing, but mostly, it wasn't. I took a lot of guff from alot of people because I basically just chose not to deal with it. In the early days of my Quit I was in everyone's face about everything, large or small. Believe me, I became quite an expert at apologizing. I have calmed down a bit now and have become more selective about who and what I stand up for and what I allow to pass. The bottom line in my opinion is respect. I try to treat others with respect and insist the same for myself.

Lynn, welcome back! It is so very good to see you on the boards!
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You must do the very thing you think you cannot do.
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Pamela



Quit Date:
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Posts: 3542
Location: Gardiner, NY

PostPosted: December 28, 2004 4:04 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your replys, guys. Lynn, I'm so glad to hear you're back with us and restarting your quit. What you say about anger makes a lot of sense...that it's hurt, fear, or frustration. With me, it's usually hurt...I'm quite thin skinned....but not so much as I used to be...or at least, I'm not letting it sit and simmer any more.

I'm really just starting to analyze this anger thing. I'm trying to remember what I did with anger when I wasn't smoking (isn't it nice that I'm quit so long, it's hard to remember!....actually, it's just that I'm getting old), and if I was angry as much as I seem to be these days.

I guess the answer is yes to am I as angry as often as I used to be as a smoker. when I think of things now that are pissing me off, I try to think back if the same situation happened before I quit. Yes, but I dealt with it differently. Often, or most often, as a smoker, when a situation came up that really pissed me off, I would usually go off and smoke. The madder I was, the harder I smoked and puffed. For some strange reason, I felt that smoking and hurting MYSELF somehow was a blow to the person I was angry with. Here was my thought process.....I'm really angry with so and so, so in order to get back at them and hurt them, I'll SMOKE!

Wow, I really did act this w ay, and if you think about it logically, it makes no sense whatsoever. But, it seemed to have some kind of stupid logic for me when I smoked. Or, at least that is what my mind was using as an excuse to feed my addiction that moment. Really, it was sort of like getting back at someone by saying...Fine, I'll kill myself smoking, and you'll be sorry when I'm dead. But for some reason, I'd go out in a huff, have a cigarette or two, and by then, the main anger was gone, and I avoided confronting the person with what I really thought.

Now, as a non smoker...I don't avoid the situation. In some cases, like with the smoking "friends" who don't call, and Mr. Bills family, I just bite my tongue...literally....and put the anger on the back burner...where it just sits and simmers. Instead of getting rid of this anger, I just let it fester. I imagine it will have to be dealt with eventually Rolling Eyes

In other cases, like with my piggy friend, I say something really rude (like refusing to give him more food), and then really regret it because I can't ever take back what I said. But, on some level, it feels really good to say it and get it out. But at what price.

So, I guess I just have to keep working on this issue, and find new ways to confront my angry feelings with out doing something self destructive like smoking (or eating, or something else!)
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kannprint



Quit Date:
April 10, 2004

Posts: 4988
Location: St. Louis, MO

PostPosted: December 28, 2004 7:40 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightbulb time Idea we're all human! It's alright to feel anger and every other emotion and to act upon them. Why should we be doormats for others to walk upon? If we hid behind cigarettes, as we probably all did at one time or another, it's time we come out into the open and speak up for our rights.

Our friends will still be our friends and our relatives well, they're stuck with us. Confused

Lynn, I'm sooooo happy to see you back on the boards. I've missed you a lot.
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Fightn4life



Quit Date:
October 23, 2003

Posts: 1573
Location: Loysburg, PA

PostPosted: December 28, 2004 9:47 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, I could really relate to this post and Zuzu's response made so much sense. I too have been dealing with anger issues, all very justified in my mind. Most of these are coming to me from work, smoking hubby, family who pick their favorites, (oh why not me) friends that fell by the wayside, and the list goes on.

Not having the smoke screen is really a good thing. I feel as a person that I am learning to grow. Much in the way Zuzu expressed.

Realizing I am hurting myself. In addition, as You Pam said, feeling bad when something hurtful is said and cannot be taken back.

I think it's human nature to get mad, jealous, all these emotions are real and very raw as we emerge from smoker to non smoker. Learning to forgive, overlook and remembering the lesson behind, "let the person without sin cast the first stone."

We are growing, learning, and adjusting to this new life. I feel we should not be so hard on ourselves as we make this transition.

As far as royal bitch,…I don't by it. Too much goodness is spread all over these boards everyday. That is who we are.
Angry at times...but quitangels. Smile I got that from Tonya.

Oh yes...Lynn…it is wonderful to see you back.


Sandyz
14 months learning to grow as a nonsmoker

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Cowgirl UP!



Quit Date:
July 26, 2004

Posts: 5029
Location: Ala

PostPosted: December 28, 2004 11:28 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoa Pam, this thread is loaded with information for everyone. You all know I have gone through some anger, blues with anger, and meanness with anger...and it is a bummer but I agree part of the healing process. It really is like a birth.....it takes forever Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes but a birth just the same....we will not know all our features until we are completely born.

Pam, you anger seemed justified....I ask myself alot....just what am I really angry at and why....sometimes I can answer and sometimes I honestly do not know...we must all learn to accept our new feelings and really feel them for the first time....exploring and letting go...they must be dealt with...the festering part could be hazzardous.... Mad Laughing

People who smoke do not have a clue into our mindset, those who have never smoked are clueless also...to many we may seem strange or weird always questioning our life, moods, and emotional stability. We are addicts and that is hard for alot of people to come to terms with...to them we did not abuse drugs or alcohol but just wanted a support group. I hope we all figure these things out and I for one am thankful for all your insight into these issues.

Welcome back Lynn.......congrats on starting over!
Very Happy
Kay
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Pamela



Quit Date:
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Posts: 3542
Location: Gardiner, NY

PostPosted: December 29, 2004 10:12 AM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, thanks for all the replies, and giving me something to really think about. Zuzu, what you say really makes sense. I remember, oh, months and months ago, it might have even been at FFS, you starting many threads about anger, and that it was "out sized", and that you were trying to deal with it.

Honestly, I was very interested in what you were saying, but at the time, did not really know what you meant by this. And although I was experiencing many other situations similar to other quitters at the same stage as me, I never really seemed to have this "anger" situation that many other people did. I never understood the "out sized" and "right sized" responses to anger, and what it meant.

Now, I do, because that's the perfect term for what i'm experiencing. I may seem a little retarded to some at just hitting this stage, but I think a lot of it has to do with working from home, and having somewhat limited outside contact. Anyway, I always had these anger issues, the same ones that I do now. they've been dragging on and lingering, some for years and years, and I've just never dealt with them before. I mean really dealt with them.

So, now I'm testing the waters so to speak. As Zuzu said, many of my angry responses are justified (are all smokers natural doormats?), but it's hard to know what to pass over and let go of, and what to stand up for and squawk about. I guess it depends on what you value, and what you want to keep in your life. There are some things better looked at and set aside, others worth standing up and fighting for.

It's time for me to start making some "right sized" responses to anger. In the meantime, I'll probably make some "out sized" ones.....maybe even some "under sized" ones (is that a word?). But, I'm not going to crawl back into my smoking corner, letting everything just sit and fester.

Thanks Zuzu, and everyone. Rolling Eyes Who knew we had to work so hard to be "normal"? Wink
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Cowgirl UP!



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PostPosted: December 29, 2004 2:05 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Certainly not me Pamela, heck it was almost easier being abnormal. Laughing Laughing ...excellent post...thanks again.
Kay
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Zuzu



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PostPosted: December 29, 2004 3:43 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pam-

I don't know what the right answer is.. I'm not sure that there is one. I'm never sure if it helps or hurts to offer opinion/perspective on subjects like this. It's just one perspective/opinion among a sea of them - many no better or worse, no right or wrong then the next.

I think the things that are worth standing up and fighting for include things like national/universal health care, a cure for cancer, a cure for AIDS, addressing world hunger and poverty, racism, illiteracy, faciscm. Things of this nature.. things that harm our families, culture, civilization and future. Those things are worth fighting for.

Maybe in all things, however, it is best to come from and react out of a place of love.

You are not a doormat when you decide to make compromises in your relationship with your husband and his family. My partner's family is conservative, I'm left-leaning, when/as I break bread with them and endure a line of conversation I find patently unpleasing I realize that this is part of who they are, part of who he is, and it's merely chatter. It's not that big of a deal. Do I engage in the discussion? Certainly not... when provoked (because sometimes they do try to provoke me into the discussion) I merely say that I was taught it wasn't polite to discuss politics or religion at the dinner table and I understand far too well why that is. Take the high road.

You are also not a doormat with your smoking friends. They may not be people who you want to remain friends with - but they are not bad and their actions don't necessary suggest that they have less love for you. To not call, to rely on others to initiate, may be who they are and have little to do with you. That might simply be who they are. You might need something different/other from people who you want to cultivate friendships with, and that's for you to decide, within your control. Telling them off - telling them to be different people than they are... well, that's not really emblematic of friendship either. It's reasonable to put forward your needs (e.g. in friendships, I need people to be proactive - to call me once weekly, once every two weeks, monthly, etc. - really define what you need that they're not doing and see if they are willing to compromise to meet your needs - if not..well... then you make a decision....) In my mind this one is a bit more complex - it's not wrong for you to have preferences, judgments, discernments about what you want from people in your life - to the contrary, that's really important. What's important is that as your standards for yourself rise, change, become clearer, that you find a way of articulating what the standard is and not tell someone that they are wrong, per se, for not being the person/people you want them to be. Remove the sense of injustice.

Intimacy is being viscerally honest and vulnerable while at the same time being fiercely independent. Intimacy is being viscerally honest for its own sake, with NO expectations - and in order to relinquish expectations it's critical that one is fiercely independent. It's being vulnerable, passionate and compassionate - speaking from a place of love and compassion even when your articulating disappointment, frustration, loneliness or fear. So if I say, "I haven't heard from you in months and I realized I'm purposefully not calling, hoping my silence will punish you becuase I feel abandoned by your silence. I realize too that that's wrong of me. I don't want to be a person who punishes with silence. I realize I need to hear from, sometimes.. I wonder if that's something you are will to do for me." Intimacy is being willing to say something like this because it's your truth, because it's the way you feel, without expectations that the other person will change.. suddenly start calling, or even respond favorably.

Like forgiveness, which sets US free, intimacy isn't "for" another person - it's for you. Sure it's wonderful to find people who are capable of being intimate back... but/and regardless of the capacity of other people, all of your relationships and interactions can be intimate - richer and deeper - because these relationships are not about who and how the other people are.. they are about who YOU are in them.

With regard to the bean-hating friend (I don't know why.. that one makes me laugh!) - he may have really poor manners, but/and is it terribly unpredictable? His manners are consistantly bad, yes? If they are predictably bad then I'd say lay down your sword. You're not going to change this man - simply, he doesn't like beans.. whatdya gonna do?

What makes you a doormat. I don't believe as smokers we were doormats. I think we used nicotine and our addiction as part of our coping mechanisms. I can see Ed/my partner doing it all the time.. he gets angry, he smokes, something joyful happens, he smokes, he receives sad news, he smokes... We used smoking/nicotine as part of our rituals for processing our feelings. He has a cigarette and suddenly he's numbed up a little and he lets things go... he was all furious, then he smokes, and then he's less furious. It's easy to observe now.. on the other side...

So does that mean where we had emotion before we SHOULD have took arms against a sea of trouble? I don't think so... again, just one woman's opinion. I think what we should have done as smokers is held those emotions, sat with them, learned from them and used them to identify who we are and who we wanted to be. The ultimate outcome - letting something go, putting it in perspective, etc., maybe that's exactly where we need to get to, but without the nicotine- we need to grow up and learn to do that without a drug to facilitate the outcome. Maybe.. maybe not... but maybe.. maybe in some situations and not in others.. it's up to each of us to decide because really it's deciding who we want to be...

So.. who do you want to be in each of the situations that make you angry? Do you want to be tolerant, discerning, judgmental, loving, hateful, unifying, divisive.... you decide, with intention, because how you decide to be is precisely who you are deciding to be. And I think that in the bigger picture, there's likely no right or wrong.. just YOUR right and wrong, just what you come to decide is right and wrong for you....

My fifteen cents...

-Zuzu
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Tammy



Quit Date:
February 16, 2004

Posts: 2565
Location: Florida

PostPosted: December 30, 2004 9:58 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too have dealt with anger since quitting. I hid behind the smoke screen as a smoker. Like Pam said the madder I was the harder I smoked. Not any more. Now I say what is on my mind. Sometimes that has not been a good thing. Sometimes it has. I am learning to deal with ALL of life as a non smoker. Lynn, is right when she says:
Quote:
when most people say they are angry, they are actually USUALLY one of three things: hurt, afraid, or frustrated.

I have faced all three for sure since quitting.
I do believe we have to learn how to deal with anger too as a non smoker. Just like every thing else. Smoking infected so much of our life (yes I said infected) that I think we need healing in so many areas of our lives. Time heals all wounds. We need to be patient and give it time. We will be whole again.
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Jill-dec1



Quit Date:
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PostPosted: January 1, 2005 1:03 AM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Pamela,
It’s so nice to know I’m not going crazy. Lately too many people have really been pushing my buttons. It’s been especially hard to deal with feelings. Looking back at this last year I think Lynn may have the right words hurt, frustration, and being afraid. Thanks for letting me know I’m not the only one.

Jill
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Pamela



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Location: Gardiner, NY

PostPosted: January 2, 2005 2:04 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jill, just don't let the "anger" feelings overwhelm you. Come here and post, if need be...we've got pretty tough skins here.
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