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Zuzu



Quit Date:
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Posts: 962
Location: Marin

PostPosted: November 22, 2005 1:33 AM    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's a very challenging issue, Faby. For me it's more about fostering and creating an environment that is supportive of someone dealing with their addiction.

Last edited by Zuzu on December 27, 2005 11:09 PM; edited 1 time in total
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marw



Quit Date:
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Posts: 3634
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: November 22, 2005 1:54 AM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zuzu,

I guess it's pretty clear by now that I am not for smoking in public places. However I do have compassion for smokers, and agree wholeheartedly about the need for Support Programs for them. THere is more support out there now, but there is still not enough. I remember once having to pay $300 for a Stop-Smoking Support Program through a hospital here, that did not work, and only made the addiction worse. First of all, it should have been free. But most of all, no one should be asked to get up and say such things about him/her self. At the first session, we had to say we were addicts (and this was not a 12-step program) which O.k....but then we had to say we smelled, our clothes were dirty, and we were offensive to others. I refused to do it. So the leader said I could just sit and listen. For the second session we were supposed to bring a "butt" bottle full of old butts .....and at this point I don't remember the rest. THe thing was at the time I always washed my ashtrays several times a day, and I did NOT feel like I was dirty because I smoked. THat was a horible way to treat smokers, and when you think if it had been a program that worked, such as the one here, I might have been quit 20 yyears sooner!!

No, I certainly do not mean to humiliate smokers in any way! And I certainly feel they need good programs and much support, but I still think those who do not smoke deserve clean air in public places. I don't see a conflict.
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Zuzu



Quit Date:
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Posts: 962
Location: Marin

PostPosted: November 22, 2005 2:51 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Margaret -

I think in many respects we're in agreement.

The only place I feel we might differ is on the subject of someone smoking while they walk down the street. In truth, the materials you posted re: the effects of second hand smoke are really based on the impact of second hand smoke in enclosed environments - children growing up with parents smoking in the home, workers at restaurants, etc., being exposed to second hand smoke daily in work environment. There hasn't been a study, that I know of, that looks at the effect of exposure to disbursed particles in an wholly open/outdoor environment. So I can't really buy that this kind of exposure has any significant health risk - or rather it pales, dramatically, in comparrison to other toxins we're exposed to and couldn't be sorted out as causative for anything.

That being said, it's still an unpleasant smell. Just like I find perfumes very unpleasant, car exhaust, the smell of cooking red meet, fish (in general), skunk spray, and the list goes on. For me, even though I find the smell unpleasant in an out-door open air environment, I can live with it. That's simply where I fall on the spectrum of tolerance.

I had some pretty horrific experiences in "smoking cessation" programs too . I totally feel you on that one.

-Zu
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Tammy



Quit Date:
February 16, 2004

Posts: 2565
Location: Florida

PostPosted: November 22, 2005 11:02 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Faby said:
Quote:
but let me clarify that I do respect individual freedom but i'm a bit wary of calling smoking an individual freedom. If you ask any smoker if they would give it up if they could most of them will say they would but it's too hard...so i question to what extent smokers actualy decide to smoke at free will?


I have to say I agree whole heartedly with this one. How can it be a individual freedom if we are addited to nicotine????? We are nicotine addicts pure and simple. As prior smokers we all had the right to light up in the first place it is legal. BUT when the right turns into an addiction then what. Second hand smoke is bad. I try to avoid it at all cost. I am so sorry that I ever exposed my children to it. I was stupiid and careless with there precious lungs.

Since quitting the smell of cigarette smoke makes me sick seriously. I can not stand the smell. I stay as far away from smokers on the street as I can. However I do not feel I should have to walk through their smoke to enter the mall or bank or gas station. I say NO SMOKING within so many feet of a door way.Just like it is here in FL for goverment buildings and hospitals. To everyone who ever had to breathe in my second hand smoke I am sorry. Crying or Very sad Embarassed

Another thought on the to much perfume stinking up the place That may be a bother but never caused the problems second hand smoke does.

Last but not least no need to be mean to smokers. They are addicts I feel sorry for them. Been there done that. Embarassed
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Leona



Quit Date:
June 1, 2017

Posts: 1838
Location: Alpena, Michigan

PostPosted: November 23, 2005 9:50 AM    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the majority of what is being said here but then again there are also those that don't even see smoking as an addiction. We know better and we know what it is doing to us but some don't.


My mother is a classic example of this. She says that emphasyma and the other so called smoking diseases are nothing to do with smoking she says that a study was done by some one (won't say who) that proves that it is all a gimmic and that the drs all have been brainwashed. She won't even let me talk about the dangers of smoking while around her. In fact she refuses to even talk to me when I say anything at all.

Some like her have stuck their heads in the sand and refuse to see it at all. They hide behind their misbegotten beleifs to feed their addictions while not even seeing that they are addicted.

I for one feel sorry for them and wish that there was someway to help them see. I tolerate it because they are addicted and they like a heroin addict have to bottom out before they can see what they are doing to themselves. Or at least some of them do.
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Zuzu



Quit Date:
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Posts: 962
Location: Marin

PostPosted: November 23, 2005 12:40 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leona-

That sleighs me! Next time she tells you cigarette smoking isn't addictive, then tell her to prove it. Tell her to stop smoking for ONE week, just ONE week - if it's not addictive, this should be easy for her!


Last edited by Zuzu on December 27, 2005 11:08 PM; edited 1 time in total
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marw



Quit Date:
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Posts: 3634
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: November 23, 2005 2:57 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

What nicotine does to the brain is documented, no matter where it comes from or what form the nicotine. Check the research at whyquit.com or American Lung Association, or just about anywhere that does the research.

Thank you, Tammy, for acknowledging that you were guilty when you smoked of causing others to inhale your second-hand smoke, and I want to do the same thing. To all on whom I inflected this, I want to say I am sorry!! Embarassed Sad Very, very sorry.
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Zuzu



Quit Date:
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Posts: 962
Location: Marin

PostPosted: November 23, 2005 5:24 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a great easy-to-read article re: nicotine and the brain here:

http://www.nida.nih.gov/MOM/NIC/MOMNIC1.html

And I think this is the one that happened to me! (Yup.. natural born smoker.. that's me!):

http://www.dukemednews.org/news/article.php?id=7513

Folks have often said that they hope one day some positive uses for nicotine will be discovered. I contend every power in the world can be used for good or bad.. we just need to discover and explore the applications. Here's info (not really a study.. the studies are elsewhere.. don't think people REALLY want to read journal articles!) re: the potential benefical effects of nicotine in preventing Parkinson's... so for the "bad" there's also some potential "good" (Hey.. maybe those of us who stopped smoking later in life are going to have some lasting preventive health benefits for all the harm we caused ourselves! Horray!):

http://www.parkinsons.org.uk/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=93548

And here's an interesting and compelling article re: nicotine and MS:

http://www.thehealthierlife.co.uk/article/3130/multiple-sclerosis-therapy.html

In terms of the effect of nicotine on the brain, it seems that smoking actually increases responses to treatment among schitzophrenics and that schitzophrenics who smoke are higher functioning (likely some positive self-medicating effect that's not wholly understood.)

If you just start searching around the internet using key words like "nicotine and brain injury" or "nicotine and brain" or "nicotine and parkinson's" etc., quite a diverse array of articles appear - some suggesting potential positive effects of nicotine on the brain.. most negative articles seem to focus on fetal exposure and the risk of nicotine addiction in adolescents (per above article.)

Nothing ever seems clear cut... this is good and that is bad. Or at least generally that's true. For me, personally, nicotine isn't so good.

-Zu
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Leona



Quit Date:
June 1, 2017

Posts: 1838
Location: Alpena, Michigan

PostPosted: November 23, 2005 9:38 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zuzu,
If I were to send this kind of article to my mom she would 1) Blast me into space on the tip of her foot and 2) tell me to stop thinking in a box 3) Quit talking to me altogether(not really a bad thing)and 4) Tell me that I have been brainwashed with the rest of them even though I can tell her that what I know to be true by having quit smoking and how much better I feel even though I have gained a ton and I do mean a ton of weight.

She is narrow minded when it comes to her cigarettes and I for one can hear what it is doing to her lungs. I am pretty sure she has the beginning stages of emphasyma even though she denies any problems except "sinus" which is a load as she takes tons of sinus meds and still has the problem and then she says it is the humidty which in winter there is very little of that in this part of the country. I think she is not only adicted to cigarettes but also to the over the counter sinus medications she takes. So she has 2 strickes and refuses to see either. I am not sure what it is going to take for her to see. I pray for her but this is about all I can do at this time as she doesn't want to hear it. I know you know and we all know the truth of the matter.

As for asking her to prove it she won't and I know this because I have confronted her and asked for the proof. She killed dad with her second hand smoke and now she is killing herself with smoking 3 packs a day. Her house stinks her clothes stink and I don't like going there at all because of the smell. But once in a while I go to check up on her that is when and if she decides that she isn't "busy" which in her case is browsing the internet for "someone" who she is interested in (male gender) and playing games on it too.

All the while she is smoking her brains out.
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Tammy



Quit Date:
February 16, 2004

Posts: 2565
Location: Florida

PostPosted: November 23, 2005 11:05 PM    Post subject: Reply with quote

I knew of a man once that had chewed tobacco for years and years. He got cancer and it ate half of his face off. His son said he tried and tried to quit dipping but could not. Still chewed even after that.

My bosses husband chews tabacco too and he also has tried and tried to quit. He has a very bad heart and Doctors have told him over and over to quit chewing that it is very bad for his heart.

I do not think that smoking nicotine is the only way to be addicted. I think chewing tobacco or gum or even inhalers or even the patch for that matter can be addictive.

Leona, Mom is gonna have to see it for herself just like we did. Before I quit I did not want to hear anything. I think they call that denial. I wanted to quit and knew I needed to but I sure did not want anyone telling me what to do. Stupid me I really really thought that I was addicted like watching to much TV or something. I did not have a clue that I was a drug addict. Embarassed
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Tammy
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